RLSH - Colorado Dark Knight Shooting

[blackmage]

The Colorado shooting was sad. I mean this because it was cowardly on so many different levels, terrifying in action, and without rational purpose. All of those lives lost... and for what?

What also gets to me, is that there was nothing one could truly do about it or to protect themselves from it, It was at a theatre! This is a place built for entertainment... not security. It's the same place that is a classic hang-out for High-Schoolers all over our nation.

This was absolutely COWARDLY on so many levels!

Now, for a deeper 'thought-twist' on this...

I eneded up in a conversation about this incident in which the RLSH aspect was injected into it in order to get my thoughts on it. One of the first questions asked was, 'Was this guy... James Eagan Holmes aka 'Joker'' a REAL LIFE SUPER VILLAIN?

I couldn't answer that.

The person went into his attire, his actions, his drive, and even his choice location of attack. While eerie and gut-wrenching this was a worthwhile conversation because these were points that needed debate... especially with the other events that have occurred this year.

Through this exploration, it seems that mentality has much to do with the difference between RLSHs and RLSVs. While RLSHs are DETERMINED to perform acts of 'good' almost to the point of obsession... so do RLSVs, even if their acts of 'good' are considered bad... or evil.

The masks, costumes, and aliases are just some of the ties that make RLSHs and RLSVs brothers in this game of determination, obsession, and belief.

One may see the small act of helping the little old lady across the street as inspiration for other watching him do it while the other one who pushes her to the ground out of the middle of the street to clear the way for traffic might see himself as one keeping the flow of traffic uninterrupted therefore helping the city. Both believe that they are doing right, but where is the line drawn?

Is it with morals? A RLSV might scream I am the Joker and mean it as the truth, while the RLSH might state that I am SuperGuy and lie to everyone he knows and love about his identity.

A RLSV will say I am 'bad', wear a mask, and trespass. A RLSH will say I am 'good', wear a mask, and trepass.

Some RLSVs will steal, hurt and kill... some RLSHs have stole, hurt, and killed. Although killing tends to be when the line becomes crossed.

Many points were brought up, which made me do a lot of thinking on the comparisons between both of them. It seemed that mentality and intent were the main determining factors in changing the final letter in the acronym RLSH to RLSV.

Needless to say that I had this conversation with two different reporters that called me about interviews. I told them that I am no longer active within the RLSH community, but we have general conversations here on this forum. I also received a call from a television station who wanted an interview about RLSHs.

Things are heating up guys and this year has been a WOOZY.

Please give your individual opinions of the RLSH aspect to the Colorado inceident so that others can read a variety of thoughts instead of believing that I am some kind of spokesmen when I am NOT!!

I am a FAN of RLSHs... NOT the leader OR spokesman.

-Blackmage

[The Muse]

Sometimes when we have what others see as a voice of reason, they wish for us to step forward and take the lead....

[John Reid]

I'll be glad to. What is the difference between a hero and a villain? It very often comes down to point of view. Not just the point of view of the world but the point of view from the perpetrator.

There has never been a villain in the history of the world who considered himself a villain. Ask someone to name a villain and most will name Hitler in the top 10 and yet from his point of view he was the hero of Germany. He is labeled a villain in history because history is written by the victors. Had Germany won the war history books themselves would teach him to be a hero.

Look at the infamous Vlad the impaler, the real life Dracula whose evil deeds dwarfed his fictional counterpart. Thousands of his own people impaled on spikes alive while he ate a banquet beneath them sopping his bread in their blood.

Yet in Romanian history books he was declared a hero who saved their country from the Turks.

How then do we distinguish a hero from a villain when indeed many of their methods, training and determination seem identical?

One man's hero can and often is seen as another man's villain.

I can only give my own opinion on this from my own point of view. I believe it comes down to selflessness vs selfishness and nothing more.

A hero is one who is willing to lay down your his/her life for others, to give totally and completely of yourself with no thought of reward and without hesitation.

A villain is one who is willing to stop at nothing to accomplish a selfish goal. To achieve personal glory, fame, money, or power.

There is indeed a very thin line between hero and villain and many there are who step over it. You need only look at the police force to know that all police officers are not created equal. Many put on the uniform to protect and serve the public and do indeed put their lives on the line without hesitation or regret.

Others put on the uniform because they enjoy having power and authority over others. They seek the admiration and praise of the public.

The rlsh community are simply volunteer police officers and the same thing applies to them.

As with all things nothing is black and white. Sometimes heroes turn into villains and sometimes villains turn into heroes.

Was James Holmes a real life super-villain? Certainly from the point of view of his victims and his community. What did he think he was? True he was imitating a fictional villain the Joker, but did he see the Joker as evil? Does he understand the difference between good and evil? What were his goals to create anarchy? Madness is usually illogical but may have a goal.

Now regarding being a spokesman for the rlsh community. You are a writer who has studied and conversed with many in the community. You once posted a definition between the hero, anti-hero and vigilante that was the best definition that I ever read. So despite your protests I would say you are more than qualified to speak about the community, in the same way that Tea Krulos is qualified.

So as far as I am concerned you can speak to reporters about the community any time and in some ways, not being a part of it, you have a more objective point of view.

Knight-Hood

[The Muse]

*Looks at Blackmage expectantly*

It sounds like Blackmage may have already (if inadvertantly and unwillingly) stepped in that direction....

[blackmage]

Something I find chilling about this guy and this incident is the classic 'normal-guy' trait. He perfectly fits the prototype response from interviewers when he is described as:

"He was quiet."
"He kept to himself a lot"
"He was really smart."

This reminds me of some of the people (aka, kids) I used to communicate with on the old RLSH forum. Some of them had been through extreme situations and became intrigued by RLSHs as a form of therapy and direction.

RLSHs offered many of the critical things they were searching for. They could hide themselves and be someone else (alias), this would allow them to do what was in their heart without others knowing it was them or judgment. This aspect alone minimizes the fear of failure.

Being a RLSH allowed them to have courage and to show it without comments or fear. It allowed them to be special and wonderfully unique. Being a 'hero' allowed them to join a brand that instantly garnished respect within the community.

Ultimately it made them... cool.

Once I probed deeper I saw many personalities behind the words and masks that were not only extremely lost and confused, but obsessed, angry, and terrifying.

There were kids bickering about the use of guns, lethal weapons, body armor, martial arts, booby-traps, bombs, pressure points, and revenge. There were those who had multiple identities and those could not cope with the daily boring routines in life.

I witnesses them coming to the 'underworld' of RLSHs searching for a chance to matter.

I witnesses the saviours who stepped in to offer guidance and the pillars who struggled to hold things together; they were always outnumbered and outgunned. I saw the new breeds get tired of them, look beyond them, and filter them out in order to gain more strength from the others that saw things the way that they did.

I saw the focus go from protecting victims to creating victims.

I witnessed the line becoming gray between RLSHs and RLSVs. I realized how important it was not to give up hope on this new breed which is why the movement is needed.

This kid... this killer would have been a perfect fit for the RLSH forum if I saw his profile on paper.

I wonder if he even knew that the RLSH Movement existed. I wonder if he's ever been to the RLSH forum/board on the old website.

I wonder if he's ever communicated with any of the other heroes on the board.

I wonder how frightening it would be if he has done all of these and how it would affect the conversation on the board if this came to light.

I wonder if things would change there and if everyone would check they way that they thought and the things that they post.

I wonder...

[John Reid]

Yes he definitely fits the loner, quiet, shy type which our membership seems to draw like moths to a flame. I am not only marching in that parade myself but carrying a banner, so I do understand the mentality.

I do not recall anyone from Aurora on the site in the year I spent there. I only wish he had of discovered the site. I would like to have tried to guide him in a more positive direction as I tried to do for many of the youngsters who showed up there ready to go out and "kick ass" ala the movie.

From the little that has come to light about James Holmes, everyone who knew him thought he was funny and kind. The very last person you would expect to go postal in a theater of innocent people.

Just looking at him sitting in the courtroom he seemed like he was in another world. The vast majority of posts on rlsh.net seem hate filled, revenge driven anger and wishing they could have killed him somehow.

I guess I am the only one who feels badly for him. Clearly he snapped. The shame is that no one who knew him saw the transformation before hand. I read that his mother and father learned about the event when a reporter called them at 5am.

My heart goes out them as well. They lost their son also and can expect not an ounce of sympathy from their neighbors.

Yes he was like one of us, but something is really wrong with James. He's not on drugs as many suspected, but clearly he is quite mad.

Do not worry too much about the kids on the rlsh forums as most of them are all talk and just trying to sound tough because that's the way they think a superhero should sound ala Batman or Wolverine.

But few there are who will actually go out in the field. Those who do venture out often give it up the first time they run into a scary situation.

Yes many teens are angry, frustrated and rebellous but that goes with the turf. The trick is to try and be the adult in the room and change their attitudes with old fashioned reason.

My hope was if I could just point them in the right direction all of that energy could be directed in a positive way. I'll never know how much influence I had on them and can only hope for the best.

Knight-Hood

[The Muse]

If only more people were willing to make that same effort Knight-hood.

[delta]

Blackmage,

I’ve also wondered if he was in touch with any part of the RLSH/V/A community and will that come up in the investigation. I’ve wondered if any of us ever saw one of his posts if I he did.

One of the members of the community referred to him as a Real Life Super Criminal in an effort to distance him from the RLSV factions.

Knight-Hood,

I haven’t checked into the RLSH.net discussions because I want to avoid the amount of hate and fear I’m sure will be there.

[blackmage]

When the rage and attacks start on the old board, you, Knight-Hood, Rook, Ark, and Grey Guardian will be needed more than ever!!

You can't leave it to the 'extreme' heroes to direct the rage of the youth.

I know it sucks, but...

'Heroes aren't made during good times!'

-Blackmage

[John Reid]

Ark,

I just posted on the thread titled "Murderer dressed as Bane" and informed them that I was beginning to have some sympathy for the killer and his parents because he is just some kid who snapped and of course UA was the first to flip out. Nothing I can't handle of course. You might find the discussion amusing.
Knight-Hood

[ark]

hey been reading up about Holmes. In all fairness to both parties I am angered about what this guy did, at the same time though each act must have a reason. think about it to bring not just 1 or 2 but actualy 3 guns. and the stock pile of ammo he bought also with explosives in his room. He did alot of thinking alot of planning to get to where he is now. At the same time i do sympathise with his family and him as a person. Its true Moraly what he did was wrong how he could think it was ok for him to do what he did there has to me some kind of mental issues going on. I saw the pictures he seemed dazed kinda like a person would look like after taking haroin. what made him cross that line from a bright future to fall so low that no one is willing to catch him. I dont care if we had contact with him i dont care if rlsh/rlsv and what ever els people are making up they are now adays. i dont care if the media comes and asks us if they find out he did, the number one question "did you know him well enough to know he would do this?" and the answer would be no one would have known he would have clearly. if people saw a warning in writing anything in all honesty no one would have taken him seriously. at first look at the photo i seriously thought "thats the guy?"

im pretty good at reading people if they are touble or going to make somthing happen that isnt normal. This guy i am sorry to say would not set off my triggers to think watch this guy. i bet most people would think the same way, this horrable event that took place..... would have ended in some ones blood regardless. I am angered that so many were injured and so many died. It is holmes fault for all the sadness and all the anger and every one has a right to be angery at this person but the end result is what was the reasoning for him to go this far to be seen or heard. why did he title himself of all things the Joker, and why did he shoot so many and was scared to die in the end. he had the amunition he could have shot himself and ended it all. a kid so full of ambition to harm and kill so many did not want to be harmed himself which is a strange concept i think.

[ark]

one more thing.... i cant find that posting Knight

[John Reid]

The url is www.therlsh.net/t9790p100-murderer-dressed-as-bane#196411

Knight-Hood

[blackmage]

What did UA say? I don't have an account on that board.

[The Muse]

me either....

[John Reid]

Oh sorry. Well he simply said,
"He didn't snap. This was a well calculated premeditated deliberate attack. He spent months working this out. He wanted to be famous. More than likely he only called himself the Joker to mind suck the cops and make the publicity even more intense.
Hang the f@#%@r high."

You'll have to fill in your own blanks. I then replied that just because someone plans out such a heinous act does not mean that they are not crazy, in fact it varifies it.

After that it has generated into a rousing debate on the sanity or insanity of James Holmes. We'll see how it plays out.

Leviathan pointed out something interesting. In the graphic novel "The Dark Knight Returns" by Frank Miller there is a scene where some guy shoots up a porn theater, complete with orange hair. One of my favorite Batman issues actually.

Knight-Hood

[John Reid]

Ok here is the url to that comic book connection. Check this out.

articles.nydailynews.com/2012-07-20/news/32768145_1_comic-book-batman-gunman

Knight-Hood

[delta]

I'm going to have to dig out my copy and check that out. It's been a long time since I read it and I've forgotten that scene.

Blackmage, you make a good point. I guess I'll have to face the maddness and log on.

[The Muse]

In the article the someone is quoted as saying that with millions of Batman stories from the last 60 years there was bound to be one that was similar. But the thing is, what James Holmes did and how he dressed was almost EXACTLY like that episode. The difference was that it wasnt a porn theater.

Having dealt with a family member that developed Schitzophrenia, I can say with ABSOLUTE certainty that UA is wrong in one aspect....people who develop mental illness can seem normal in every way. To those who dont know them, they may never realize someone has that illness. Especially with Delusional Schitzophrenia.

I have NO idea if this is the case with Holmes. I do know that for a Schitzophrenic, when the disease manifests, it is gradual. The paranoia creeps and grows in intensity. Their view point of the world becomes skewed. So the months of planning that took place could have been a ramp up. He is within the average age range when Schitzophrenia develops in males.

I would be guessing that they are or will be doing a psychiatric work-up on Holmes. Especially since he gave no reason for what he did, and from what I understand they found no drugs in his system.

[blackmage]

That was a great point brought up by The Muse. It also leads me into another topic that we discussed last year on the old site which would not hurt to be mentioned again for the new RLSHs...

TRAINING.

More than physical training or even legal 'hearsay' training from other RLSHs, but REAL certified training. It was easy for Urban Avenger to call this guy nuts and wish him death, but what about the more difficult path of trying to understand legal and pschological boundaries.

Those with medical training are taught a little more than placing a band-aid on a small cut, the same can be said about those with security guard training and even military training.

There is nothing better than great quality training which includes enriching knowledge as well as wisdom from those with experience.

Being careful of quick emotional statements is a rough artform in itself. ANYONE can say, 'Kill him!,' but not everyone can think rational enough to gain control of the situation in order to stop things from getting too crazy.

Back in the days... comments made such as his along with the group following his lead would result into what we call in the South... 'LYNCHMOB-MENTALITY' and trustme, that takes you to a dark place that you DON'T want to be.

This is why we have the Law... and faith.

UA is young. He's arrogant and filled with an energy while wearing a mask and being anonymous that is not the same when he is known and unmasked. His identity gives him a 'cup-of-courage' and it will simmer as time passes and he gets older.

He has charisma and a burning desire to do more with his brand than with his 'normal' self... this isn't necessarily bad. He inspires and he hits the street to make change real. He is one of those RLSHs that we have to try to have faith in and trust that he will continue to grow and improve overtime.

I'm glad that Phoenix hasn't come out to make a statement over this, because that would truly ignite UA's anger.

[The Muse]

The thought DID cross my mind that if Phoenix got into this mix, we could have a whole world of mess on our hands.

[John Reid]

Well it didn't take too long for varification, but today the latest news is that James Holmes was indeed being treated by a psychiatrist who specializes in schizophrenia.

www.businessinsider.com/james-holmes-psychiatrist-2012-7

Knight-Hood

[The Muse]

Its funny how dealing with particular health issues can help you learn to recognise it in others. I saw that same article!

It makes me sad for him, because if he DID have schizophrenia, likely as not he was either not taking meds or had quite taking them. The sad fact is that with that particular disease, the sufferers continually go off of their meds because they dont think they need them any more.


The cycle CAN be broken, but the sufferer MUST realize and accept that they have a health issue that will require them to be on medication for the rest of their natural lives....much like a diabetic would.

[Gorilla man]

this entire thing makes me wonder what's going to happen next, this guy may be the FIRST of many RLSVs I've met and/or fought that stooped this low.

I'm not trying to sound sadistic or anything, but if this guy really thinks he's the joker, he'll break out of wherever he is, and go back to what he was doing.

I don't think I'm the only RLSH who is waiting to see if he is worthy of the title he bestowed upon himself.

If I am though, please feel free to shout me down.

[John Reid]

Well fortunately for one and all breaking out of prison in real life is not as easy as it is in the comics. James Holmes will never again see the light of day.

Nor would I label him a supervillain. Sadly he is just another gun toting maniac who took a lot of innocent lives for no real reason. Worse yet he is not even uncommon these days.

Last year we saw Jared Louchner who shot Gabby Gifford. He killed 6 people and wounded 13. Then came Norway's Andre Breivik who callously murdered 77 people and just this week we saw the Sikh Temple murders.

What's going to happen next? Still more innocent people will get murdered somewhere in the world. It's just a sad fact of life in the world today.

Knight-Hood