night of Training

[ark]

Hello
So if some of you dont know im somthing as a full time RLSH or activist or what ever you can put me under you can sort of thing. I actualy work in the security field and because of my training and certificates the company i work for sorta puts me where they please just because they are actualy satisfied with how i do things and im professional while doing it (yes im sorta tooting my own horn my bad)

Any ways Tonight has been a wee bit quet so i decided to have a training session with my officers during the down time, I wanted them all to be familure and confertable at grounding people in the lease amount of energy and use of force way, reasons being is well some times it tiring taking down a guy who dosn't want to go down so the fasted,easiest and also looks like the min use of force would go along way in court if it happends to go down that route. so i had 3 guys and me each one has there ways to ground some one and thats not at all wrong i just wanted to see how they would take me down. so the first bit was them telling me how they do it and actualy physicly in slow motion on me to place some one on there stomic to be able to put the cuffs on. all three of them had about 2-3 diffrent methods which were fine and well law abiding then they showed me some tactics that were border lined potential lawsuits in my personal opinion. So after the guys had there fun i had mine i told each guy to do what ever they want to get free now 2 of these guys are in karate or were the other guy was mixed martial arts. so the first two were good sports when i got them down and i kinda adapted to what they were potentialy trying to do. My tactics are mixed but i strongly believe in using a persons momentum againts them and i use this to heart i have mixed arts under my belt but i use the tactics that do the most at disabling the person and not putting to much strain on myself so its a nice flow for the individual to the ground and quick so he is already in position to place cuffs. so we were having fun teaching ourselves all these tactics smoother way to do it with less bruises and such so this boring night kinda turned out to be a great night for crew bonding and such.

swear i missed my calling to be a trainer or somthing because i think these guys learned alot from how i did things along with my expirience with tactics and hey i learned alot from them how they deal with grounding people. i think next time i will see how they are with talking tactics

[The Muse]

Thats great! I know being in "that" type of security work can be rough...so sometimes the tactics are rough. I WHOLEHEARTEDLY approve of your ideas and methods. Not just from the court and lawsuit ends of it either. You can ask Omen, Redmage, Blackmage or anyone else that has known me any length of time. I dont agree with violence. Its a personal stand and one I dont preach to others, but I really LOVE it when I see people who try to avoid it whenever and wherever possible.

And the fact that you are blending efficiency along with human concern-trying to keep the physical harm to a minimum- only adds you to my growing list of new favorite "Heros" ! ;D But the fact that you are actively teaching these things to others just takes it up another level!!

Well Done!
*applauding*

[blackmage]

SWEEETTTT!!!

Y'know, it's REALLY amazing as to how many people have NO idea how much harder it is to fight, disarm, and gain control over an opponent without lethality.

To me, what YOU are doing is EXCELLENT for training, security, and RLSH work. This is the kind of stuff that needs to be recorded.

Questions:

For a novice, what are the best body parts to concentrate on for subduing and/or controlling an opponent?

I noticed (way back during my martial arts days) mentality was the first and most powerful component in dealing with an inevitable escalating situation. At what EXACT point should a person in the field (lets use RLSHs as an example) commit to physical action in a situation?

When I used to spar and fight, some of my instructors would tell me to concentrate on your opponent's eyes. I normally watched the center of their body to see how they moved into an action. How were you taught and how do you teach the reading of an opponent?

People are always talking about styles and whatsoever, what have you found to be the most natural method to learn one's strengths without running around screaming, 'I know Shaolin Kung Fu or Ninjitsu'?

-Blackmage

[The Muse]

Quote: "running around screaming, 'I know Shaolin Kung Fu or Ninjitsu' "
Just that mental image made me laugh....

[ark]

To be honest with you is this, your natural way and my natural way could and prob would be diffrent. now saying that i tought my guys one basic rule, If you cant do that first initial grab of the arm thats fine. Its not the arm you want you mostly want his head to go down because where the head goes the body will naturaly follow no matter what. so how to do somthing like this with out making it 1. not look like your chocking the guy and 2 that your out of harms way for the drop

im going to answer both at once here so bear with me k. now with myself there are many intimidating methods people do such as Huffing there chest to make them look bigger, to blading there body to clenching there fist and even oral threats. The way i have done things is simple if any one shows any kind of these signs and they are clear signs they will want to fight, and you already have done the talking and that does not work. Analise how he is standing, if he is bladed take note of his positioning of his body while bladed odds are the shoulder that is furthest away is what you have to worry about the most thats the power arm. the one closest to you is the destraction if some one wants to get a nice hit on you the closes arm will be the one to push you away to set you up for the opening, also take note of the guys leg positioned as well its the same as the shoulder thing block leg close to you power leg furthest. he can do a round house with that leg but its the furthest one that will hit most likely

ok now this is your basic first stance you already know its the furthest leg and shoulder you need to worry about. so if the guy decides to push you, you can use any hand to grab and continue in the side step and still have a hold on the guys arm either by wrist, forearm, or higher. this isnt the main target but it will help to control the guy down. now you have 2 legs free and your hand/arm. you place open palm on upper neck make sure you have your middle finger places closely to where the jaw joint is (this is a pressure point that you don't need to use much force if individual tries to do anything like resist this point as well does not show bruising) place free leg infront of suspect and force his head down, he will cooperate since you have him off balance and he has no where to go since his power hand is more worried of his head hitting the ground and the weak arm is used to guid him down fast but controlled manner. once he is on stomic you can do many things such as sit on him till police come handcuff him apply knee to shoulder blade so he can still breath alright but wont move but note don't let go of that one arm until he is restrained by some means but you can use your imagination on how to keep him where he is

when you start off remember his weakest arm will most likey move at your first at this case if he was left handed(power arm) and he pushed with right arm(weak arm) you will actualy try and grab start moving right and end up right beside him or alittle behind him and beside and by this time you have your right leg infront and your hand on his upper neck. the same goes for if he's right handed but opposite direction

If the suspect clenches his fist but stand flat facing you so he has a why stance but his belly if in your derection this one is easy to ground. you wont know which arm is his power arm but you will know he will not kick since he's trying to stand and punch at the same time

what you do here is simple and its kinda like the first move i told you about the blading but this scenario is diffrent. the odds are this kind of ilistration move is the drunk man punch he will do a hay maker i call it so he will through the punch wide, so depeding which way he is going thats where you will go if he punches wide left you will side step to left try and grab his arm or wrist with your hand what ever your comfertable with. and place leg behind him if you are facing the derection he is facing and push the individual will be on his back (this is not a good situation but atleast you got him down) another is if you side step and you end up facing north and him south you do the same but this time he is on the ground on his stomic and then you can do what you do best

now you dont do anything unless he strikes first you are using his mass againts him and these simple moves will get the job done with no sweat plus not much bruising from either party, from my expirience no bruising has happend

when it comes to some one threatening you i kinda let it be unless the guy actualy takes out a knife or a gun (usualy with guns im just trained to yell gun and get every one running away from that person)

Now honestly i trained as a mixed martial artist plus have dont kick boxing and normal boxing and sure all these things are great to have but the kick boxing is saposed to be used in a controled environment same as normal Boxing and alittle bit of the mix martial. my grounding tecnic i actualy made up myself from noticing how the some one reacts naturally if you do inflict somthing on some one kind of thing(hope im making sense) i learned through observing. Like if some one is bladed and is about to throw that heavy punch i could punch on top of his Knee and the reaction to the pain will most likely over power the motive to punch me if i hit hard enough. But that wont help me in security. it will leave a bruise, bruises are bad. so yea all i can say is experiment on what is easiest for you to ground some one really and dont be afraid to get hurt for trying something. this is how i learned personally

Another thing i have learned and hey it could be different in the UK or Australia or ever every one is that no one need to yell "im going to mess you up" to actually try it. just the yelling the threatening the blading of the body the clenched fist and also if he is trying to position himself in a spot that is harder to defend like your back. yea clear signs he wants to fight BUT you wont know for sure until he does that first swing. I've seen guys get in position and then for some reason there friends or i would say something and they would reconsider there thought of trying to literally harm me for doing my job.

[ark]

I really hope i kinda answered your question this morning.

[The Muse]

I think you did MORE than an adequate job of explaining, because I have NO military, fighting, martial arts, boxing or anything knowledge or skills, but I was able to follow what you were saying, visualize it and understand the principles involved.

I appreciate the length of time it must have taken for you to give us that explanation as well! Thank you SO much for taking the time to do so.


Now I am interested to see what Blackmage is going to have to say about it! ;D

[ark]

yea i wrote that after i finished my gig and my patrol so that was pretty late, im actualy surprised i explained it that well to be honest with you

[The Muse]

Have you done anymore training since then?

[The Muse]

UMMM....HELLLOOOO?

Has anyone seen or heard from Ark lately?

*sigh*

I know people get busy, but I miss them when they havent had time to come and chat.

[ark]

Hey, yea i seen and heard from ark.

Sorry guys i been really busy and well Thursday i left Toronto im kinda dealing with a personal at this time.

Muse the answer to your question is Yes i have done more training with some guys and actually my partner stray and i were scheduling a time to get together just for training.

[John Reid]

So you and Stray Cat are partners now. Excellent. Glad I was able to get you two together. What of Darkness? I believe you mentioned meeting him and liking his style. Who knows? You might end up a trio. Anyway good luck to you as always, you do good work.

Knight-Hood

[The Muse]

ark~~you are hilarious. I TOTALLY understand the "busy" thing, and Im sorry you have had to deal with personal stuff. Its nice that you have had the chance for more training.
A "partnership", WOW thats GREAT! I hope you get another break soon so you can fill us in a bit more on your goings on.

Be safe my friend!

[The Muse]

Just curious...how did the training work out? And to echo Knight-hood's question, What of this "Darkness" person, is your duo going to be a trio?

[The Muse]

*goes off hunting for Ark.*